tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post4318122184835124393..comments2024-03-27T20:12:05.513-04:00Comments on SOUND OFFICERS CALL!: Simple Wargame #2: One Hour Wargames "Horse & Musket" RulesDisgruntled Fusilierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10995610821904415726noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-21769477480309857412020-08-11T06:19:44.530-04:002020-08-11T06:19:44.530-04:00Thank you, I'm enjoying your discussion of sim...Thank you, I'm enjoying your discussion of simple rules, looking forward to 'Simplicity in Practise'. I had a good game with this scenario, also in a SYW setting, using a version of Bob Cordery's 'Portable Napoleonic' rules. My defending Prussians made a fight of it at the river crossings, to good effect! ( 'The Ragged Soldier' blog, April 2020, I called it 'Heiligtumshugel' ) david in suffolkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02945969485547328039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-89408669675584868412020-08-11T05:59:43.690-04:002020-08-11T05:59:43.690-04:00Thank you Steve! I've noted over the years th...Thank you Steve! I've noted over the years that you play quite a bit of games like these so I very much appreciate your opinion. Going to take a look at your activation method now!Disgruntled Fusilierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10995610821904415726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-33519026647045061202020-08-11T02:50:25.028-04:002020-08-11T02:50:25.028-04:00Like you say the rules are very "tinker-able&...Like you say the rules are very "tinker-able".. some idea's on the dice allocation thing here, this was for the ACW rules but as an activation method I use it across all of the periods => https://steve-the-wargamer.blogspot.com/2020/04/acw-rules-my-one-hour-wargames.htmlSteve-the-Wargamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07077311120172727690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-56130231896627624442020-08-10T19:42:48.389-04:002020-08-10T19:42:48.389-04:00Steve that sounds really cool. I especially like ...Steve that sounds really cool. I especially like allocating the dice by number based on where your priorities are. I need to check your rules out a bit more closely. We roll for command points and the result of that roll tells you how many unite you can activate in that turn. Your commander automatically bestows 1 x order, so you'll always be able to activate at least 2 units. <br /><br />We've also played around with the ability to "save" and order and this allows the defender bring charges to fire at the charger.Disgruntled Fusilierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10995610821904415726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-3676277882952902932020-08-10T07:36:27.891-04:002020-08-10T07:36:27.891-04:00The others have said it all - but I enjoyed that r...The others have said it all - but I enjoyed that read very much... just some observations from my games using the rules - like you I'm not a fan of rosters so I track hits using dice - 15 is an awkward number so I use two dice, one colour to track singles, and the other (a different colour) to track "6's".. saves having to move multiple dice... the other feature was along the lines of command friction you mentioned - both sides throw a number of dice equal to the number of units and then allocate the command dice according to tactical requirement - high dice go first - then both sides move at the same time determined by the dice... equal dice, dice off to decide who goes first... adds a little frisson of risk, "do I move them first, or will that unit react quicker?" etc. Good for solo play... let the the side that doesn't win the initiative allocate dice first, that the initiative winner can wee where he needs to respond...Steve-the-Wargamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07077311120172727690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-70416511592188649632020-08-10T05:50:03.719-04:002020-08-10T05:50:03.719-04:00Thanks Erik I'm heading there now to look.Thanks Erik I'm heading there now to look.Disgruntled Fusilierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10995610821904415726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-67903227868785156802020-08-10T03:48:49.882-04:002020-08-10T03:48:49.882-04:00About learning, I wrote down the hex-conversions I...About learning, I wrote down the hex-conversions I've played with for Eagles (as a reply to the Flank Attack). Afterwards I felt an urge to redo it a bit, but that would also require that I build bigger hex-tables since I have shorter movement rates. Unfortunately, I haven't time for that right now. Daglallarenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17444811583243247251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-36742784973327884322020-08-09T19:52:34.954-04:002020-08-09T19:52:34.954-04:00Paul they're rules where you could play a full...Paul they're rules where you could play a full campaign in an afternoon! You cant beat that!Disgruntled Fusilierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10995610821904415726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-18784113043207875082020-08-09T17:20:24.547-04:002020-08-09T17:20:24.547-04:00My experience of OHW is that a one off game can be...My experience of OHW is that a one off game can be quite dull and bland but a series of games played as a mini campaign is where OHW shines. That is when taking that hill or blocking the enemy advance really starts to matter.<br />Regards,<br />Paul. Paul Liddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07671334487545618109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-11303979830380398942020-08-09T15:55:04.127-04:002020-08-09T15:55:04.127-04:00Thank you Erik! I'm learning a lot that's...Thank you Erik! I'm learning a lot that's for sure.Disgruntled Fusilierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10995610821904415726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-82473815401097151422020-08-09T15:54:21.781-04:002020-08-09T15:54:21.781-04:00Thanks Stew! I'm enjoying this little project...Thanks Stew! I'm enjoying this little project maybe too much:)Disgruntled Fusilierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10995610821904415726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-83082947096548248302020-08-09T15:49:31.261-04:002020-08-09T15:49:31.261-04:00Good report! And really interesting reading all th...Good report! And really interesting reading all the comments and thoughts from other gamers about simple wargaming, and rule systems. Daglallarenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17444811583243247251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-13591585948123327702020-08-09T11:07:12.335-04:002020-08-09T11:07:12.335-04:00I’ve actually never played any OHW (maybe hard to ...I’ve actually never played any OHW (maybe hard to believe but true) so cant really comment on how the rules play. From what I’ve heard / read on the internet OHW are too simple for my tastes and games are too short. I usually want to play for 2-3 hours. 😀<br />You did a good job summarizing the game and discussing what you thought was missing. Stewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00340930167419307092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-34791785004928452372020-08-09T06:29:36.084-04:002020-08-09T06:29:36.084-04:00Thanks Martin,
One of the strengths I'm findin...Thanks Martin,<br />One of the strengths I'm finding with these more simple rules are they let you focus on the narrative and storyline.<br /><br />Yes I also prefer a similar variant to OHW as there is just something more satisfying about it than the standard roll for # of hits and subtract from 15.<br /><br />I play Alex's variants for WW2 and Dark Ages and they use ver similar mechanics to yours. In these rules, the units fight with 3 x dice and their To Hit is based on their fighting strength from the rules (D6+2 hits on 3, D6 hits on 4, etc) and units are KO when they receive their 7th hit.<br /><br />There is some neat added chrome for flavor which really added to the excitement in Alex's games like rallying, digging in, making a unit "ready" enabling it to fire during an opponent's turn in the WW2 rules, etc.<br />Disgruntled Fusilierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10995610821904415726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-28229336847621084542020-08-09T06:18:40.401-04:002020-08-09T06:18:40.401-04:00Steve,
I have all of his books except 19th Century...Steve,<br />I have all of his books except 19th Century Wargaming. I've always enjoyed his 4 x base rules and they always give a good game.Disgruntled Fusilierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10995610821904415726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-85839257994833039022020-08-09T06:16:10.757-04:002020-08-09T06:16:10.757-04:00KKobold,
Your point illustrates why I'm doing ...KKobold,<br />Your point illustrates why I'm doing this project. We all like and enjoy simple rules but the definitions of what makes them simple vary as widely as our tastes. I'm not sure there ever could be a nice, "simple" definition of simple wargaming.(see what I did there?) <br /><br />Mr Thomas explains perfectly well his rationale behind why he left all of those other mechanics out and it wasnt to keep the rules down to one page. The interest in making them "simple" or rather - leaving certain mechanics out to remove "complexity" leaves the player wanting and on their own to figure some things out for themselves. Your example of flanks is a good one. My point was things were left out to reduce the complexity, not to make the rules shorter, but some of that complexity is going to be needed to model the various complicated things going on on our tabletops.Disgruntled Fusilierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10995610821904415726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-25838898274504672292020-08-09T06:02:04.236-04:002020-08-09T06:02:04.236-04:00Thank you, Jonathan! Yes OG and minifigs mixed in...Thank you, Jonathan! Yes OG and minifigs mixed in there. My 10mm SYW on single bases continues apace and I have many more bags of these 15mm SYW OG guys to finish...<br /><br />On terms of OHW it's funny - I keep coming back to them even though I know I will be missing things (see above). It's almost as if I never "bought in" to why Mr Thomas produced them being so minimalist to the degree that they are. The scenarios are challenging and I enjoy them but the rules need some chrome to take them to the next level.<br /><br />Regarding the project responses, I've been thinking about the best way to show the information. (I wont call it data right now). From the first post comments, blog posts, and email, I've amassed over 50 points of feedback which I've jotted down. I also have the questions which are meant to support a categorization of the rules played. <br /><br />I'm still thinking about the best way to show what I've learned so far in as streamlined a way as possible.<br /><br />Disgruntled Fusilierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10995610821904415726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-91277704455223441842020-08-09T05:52:11.278-04:002020-08-09T05:52:11.278-04:00Cheers, Darren. You always liked those rules :)
...Cheers, Darren. You always liked those rules :)<br /><br />The OHW are too simple as they are, but can be customized to no end.Disgruntled Fusilierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10995610821904415726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-80399276979903397432020-08-09T05:48:47.063-04:002020-08-09T05:48:47.063-04:00Norm,
Level of experience certainly affects our ex...Norm,<br />Level of experience certainly affects our expectations from our rules. I've laid out what I thought was missing from OHW. Not sure how much of the list above I'd be willing to compromise on and I need to think about that next. <br />So many people dismiss OHW but the fact of the matter is the omissions were intentional and many of the things we're all talking about are discussed in the notes. I feel like the rules are perfectly hackable and ready for our additions!<br /><br />I agree with your thoughts about simple generic and simple meaty. There are definitely buckets that these various rules can fit in. OHW is absolutely simple generic.<br /><br />As for some of your other comments, as evidenced by the blog comments since I started this project, the definition of simple is quite varied. Disgruntled Fusilierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10995610821904415726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-21365082389252285602020-08-09T04:09:54.857-04:002020-08-09T04:09:54.857-04:00Great battle accounts, and they remind me why I li...Great battle accounts, and they remind me why I like OHW so much. Lots of stuff "happens" unlike more pedestrian sets.<br /><br />As you probably know, I prefer the six hit and multiple combat dice variant. The main bit of chrome I've added is that units become disordered at half strength (drop a combat dice) , and they can rally a hit off if the roll one dice higher than the current number of hits (using the six hit version). They can't rally in a melee though. Martin Rapierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788664847205341619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-24695453472854887652020-08-09T02:36:38.323-04:002020-08-09T02:36:38.323-04:00I tried OHW a few years ago and for me, they were ...I tried OHW a few years ago and for me, they were too simple and left too much that was unresolved IMHO. However the scenarios are a great resource and worth the price of the book alone. His other books, such as Ancient & Medieval Warfare and 19thC wargaming are excellent and much more thought out, with few areas that are unclear.Steve J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12143308117853983963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-59666393629262239392020-08-09T02:34:20.835-04:002020-08-09T02:34:20.835-04:00"'Simple' to my mind means that once ..."'Simple' to my mind means that once you understand those things then you can play the game from memory."<br /><br />I concur and all of my games these days require just the QRS to play, which means I can concnetrate on the game, with only the odd reference to the rulebook.Steve J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12143308117853983963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-4281803599014997292020-08-09T00:41:00.229-04:002020-08-09T00:41:00.229-04:00Fits my definition of “simple” too.Fits my definition of “simple” too.Jonathan Freitaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07862373894196924886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-29760338557416397012020-08-08T20:12:30.796-04:002020-08-08T20:12:30.796-04:00"That happened numerous times during my two g..."That happened numerous times during my two games and it illustrates a great point about simple rules. What you give up in the rules themselves can manifest itself on the table. "<br /><br />The problem is that there's a difference between 'simple rules' and 'short rules'. A game is not simple because you leave out a load of stuff in order to fit it on one page. If you give a modifier for attacking a flank, for example, then you have to define what constitutes a flank attack. I like writing simple rules, but even so they usually come out to six pages or more, because I take the time to explain thing. 'Simple' to my mind means that once you understand those things then you can play the game from memory.Kaptain Koboldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17082772546044655044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1194255716971534690.post-16365678703417213332020-08-08T19:02:28.988-04:002020-08-08T19:02:28.988-04:00Great to see your SYW troops out on the table, Ste...Great to see your SYW troops out on the table, Steve. Looks like Old Glory figures, to me.<br /><br />As for OHW, years ago I conducted an experiment using the same ECW battle across three rulesets. OHW was one of the rules examined. Of the three, OHW produced the least satisfying experience. Like you, I did not care for the DR Result = # Hits mechanism. Not sure I have played OHW since. I have used the scenarios many times.<br /><br />For your comparison, if you will be receiving inputs from other readers, perhaps consolidating your questions into a simple matrix might allow for more effective and more direct comparisons. That way, responses can fit into a uniform format and allow comparisons at a glance.Jonathan Freitaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07862373894196924886noreply@blogger.com