While I already have a "shedload" of 15mm American Civil War and 10mm Napoleonic troops, the Warlord Thirty Years War / English Civil War (TYW/ECW) line seemed a perfect and convenient starter for someone dipping his toes into what could be, according to this American correspondent, a very confusing subject.
There are countless reviews of the miniatures line, and tutorials on the "delightful" [sarcasm] experience of painting the blighters, so I wont go into that here. Suffice to say that the commentary I have read about painting the Epic minis has been so far pretty on point. They are easy to paint for sure, but the overall look of them in my humble opinion, leaves much to be desired when painting with "regular" paints. I've seen some units painted with speed paints and they look good enough but for the amount of work that went into painting 80-100 figures (took me about a week painting in the evenings to finish 1 "Foote Regiment") the results just didn't pay off. Take into consideration that it would take me at least a year to paint up enough units for Warlord's "Pike & Shotte" rules that I eventually moved on after painting 4 units of Pike & Shotte.
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| NOT my troops... |
The whole time I was painting though, part of me wondered what the troops would look like if I kind of, sliced into them.... IE slice the Pike line in half and slice the line of matchlock's in half and plop them onto a 4" x 2" base for a game like "Tilly's Very Bad Day" or "One Hour Wargames" or even attempt Black Powder's "Pike & Shotte" but with singular based stands.
I know we've gone down this road before but this was an experiment afterall, so let's see how we got on.
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| Not bad. I recycled old 4x2" stands and added some of my grit mixture. |
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| Many folks out there had lamented over the fellows holding their pikes at a "battle carry" position as if they were about to engage or be engaged. 1 sprue is enough to fill out a single 4 x 2 stand with 4 x lines of pike with enough leftovers to field a 4 x 2 stand with 2 lines of pike, 2 lines each flank (sleeve) of shot, and a rank of men holding their pikes at the ready. I think the result is pretty convincing! |
So 1 sprue of minis was enough to fill 2 x units for Tilly's.
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| A full brigade maybe. |
I liked the results. So much so that I chopped up all of the other units I had completed, and completed another unit that was spray painted on the sprues, awaiting their full uniforms. It's amazing that with only 4 sprues worth of troops, I was able to field 8 full units for Tilly's Very Bad Day. The "Push of Pikes" Starter Set which I pre ordered has literally so many more sprues that I'll have plenty for a full Army, likely being able to field historical forces for much larger continental TYW battles, or a full range of ECW battles using these guys as units. The actual Epic units were about 6" wide and about 2" deep. With them shrunk down, I can field way more on the table.
Right now I have 8 or 9 Pike and Shot units based up. Not all of the bases are "finished" with flock, detailing, etc but they look good on the stand. I'm going to continue on with this basing scheme as I like it and I dont have to paint up quite as much as I would have had to if I went the full "Epic Battles" route. and thankfully I will not have to purchase anymore, as I am well provisioned with the "Push of Pike" box.
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| Close enough for government work - but whose government? King or Parliament??? |
I was so excited I finally started on the artillery, cavalry and the generals. The cavalry are a hot mess at the moment and I have been sorting them out but was able to start on a command stand and an artillery stand. Still have to start on the commanded shotte.
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| A work in progress but they're coming along. I bought the "personality" pack of generals so hopefully you'll get to see Fairfax, Byron, Cromwell, and if you're lucky, the King himself on a battlefield in the near future. |
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| ditto - started slapping some paint on them but they're coming along. they're not the best but then again see comment above. They look the same whether you put in a ton of effort or a little effort. In Tilly, each wing has a commander and many have artillery. My plan is to field enough units for an "infantry heavy" force and a "cavalry heavy" force, and at least enough infantry and commanders for a small scale battle to be fought. |
So there you have it. A nice TYW/ECW force starting to take shape and I may even be able to put on a proper game of Tillys Very Bad Day by Christmas!
Also, I've heard rumors that the next line could be ancient - possibly Republican Roman and Carthaginian. I already own close to my body weight in 15mm metal Early Imperial Romans and barbarians but I may have to take a serious look when they come out. I think the important take away here is that if you purchased these guys and had second thoughts, they are versatile (and malleable enough) to base in different configurations. You just need to touch up with paint where you cut, and use a very sharp knife.
Anyways Dave is coming over and we're finally getting some ACW action on the table. Stay tuned and keep your powder dry!
I think the half-strength foote units look great. As long as you are fielding both sides, who cares?
ReplyDeleteThanks Jon, I agree. And I have more than enough to field both sides with all of the minis that come in the box!
DeleteSteve, lovely job. That is the best application of the Epic series that I have seen. I have done a bit of surgery on the the strips and know how surprisingly good the figures look afterwards.
ReplyDeleteIt deals with a couple of the aspects of Epic that are a hurdle to me. Firstly, the standard unit is 3 bases wide or 3 x 60mm, so having 180mm frontage. Frankly one is meeting a crossover point here as to whether that is any more friendly to table size than 28mm is. So your standard 4” base deals nicely with that.
Secondly, I don’t like the way with Epic strips that you get a gap between the bases due to the bases being 60mm and the strips being 55mm, it sort of creates sub units within the regiment, perhaps less of a problem with ECW / TYW when we might treat sleeve and pike body as potential different entities, but in the napoleonic and ACW armies, to my eye, that gap is jarring. Your solution gives a much more ‘knitted together’ visual of the unit, increasing the belief of an inter-relationship between pike and shot.
The cutting down on the painting aspect is a point well made. It is much easier to get completed units to the table and start some real gaming this way, which of itself encourages more painting of units etc.
My only dislike of the kit and it not a visual dislike, more of a practical one, is the inclusion of those single pikemen with their pikes at porte. They look good, but I felt it made the completed stand harder to handle, because I was putting four ranks of pike onto a single stand.
Anyway a great project for your group and some personal wargaming satisfaction for you that presses all the right buttons - A Christmas game does set the clock in motion to get things up and running. …. Is there enough time? :-)
Norm i had hoped you would comment on this one based in some of our previous correspondence. I agree completely with your observations and analysis. For me the painting effort into 1 single Epic unit was just too much to get a satisfying game on the table before 2026! And the look of them once i painted didn't grab me. I happen to like the Tillys rules and so this seemed a good compromise to me and the single unit stands are , in my eyes, believable. They also create a nice spectacle all aligned on the table.
DeleteFor me the men at "porte" arms were a nice way to use the "leftover" strips from this process, rather than a deliberate decision. ill have so many left over I'm thinking of making a huge tercio of just pikemen at porte arms!
Also probably no way to get even Cheriton on the table by Christmas! Too many other projects!
DeleteThe smaller units look great. Wargames figure manufacturers often tell people to use far too many figures (I wonder why that could be?), so your approach is very sensible.
ReplyDeleteThank you Martin! I rather like the look of them on the table and I get 2 units for the price of one :)
DeleteThese look superb Steve. Can't wait to see them in battle!
ReplyDeleteThanks Darren!!
DeleteGreat work there Steve and they look much nicer than the big units that warlord want you to game with. As Norm has already said, why have such a big frontage which is roughly the same for many 28mm games?
ReplyDeleteThank you, Steve much appreciated! I love games where a single stand represents an entire unit and so these fellows are aptly based for Tillys Bad Day or One Hour Wargames! Saves a lot of room on the table, too bot in terms of depth amd width.
DeleteI'm really pleased to see these. I'm biased, of course, but I think the combined Pike+Shot on a single base look great. And you've really got that massed look with the epic figures.
ReplyDeleteThank you Stephen. I was debating whether or not to send you an email with these but figured you would see them eventually. I'm very happy with how they are turning out and am looking forward to having a (small) game soon.
DeleteInteresting stuff. I already completed 16 regiments, but am offput by the 180mm frontages. Have you put any thought into going with deeper ranks to play into the 'epic feel'? I am trying to crack the nut on representing Tercio formations, and this might be the way to do it.
ReplyDeleteAlso, concur with you on painting. These seem ideal for slap-chop style painting, as it has worked quite well for me so far.
Cheers, Dartfrog. Yep the frontages bugged me, too, and I like the single stand = a regiment from TVBD. I could actually double up a unit by butting up a second d regiment behind another, giving me a 4 x 4" unit instead of a 4x2" unit. The regiment with pole arms at the ready with another regiment touching the rear of the stand looks really impressive and grabs the tercio feel (imho).
Delete"Slap chop" lol. I like that!
They look excellent, good call splitting them. ECW is a period I've always been interested in (grew up with a view of Sherborne Castle, slighted after it was besieged by Parliament) but not got into, but have picked up a couple of sprues if the non ranked up Warlord models to try out some skirmishes in the period.
ReplyDeleteThank you sir!
DeleteHow easy are they to cut without chopping bits off the figures at the point that you make the incision?
ReplyDeleteThe plastic is soft enough but you will inevitably chop into something that will require being painted over. Luckily the damage is easily concealed when painted over and buuted up next to the files next to it. The trick is to keep the damaged end on the inside of the base so the undamaged parts are sticking out.
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